Curse

Alas Poor Yorick · Jul 14, 2007, 01:02 PM // 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Now, mind you, I'm not advocating a mass letter sending campaign or anything of that type.

Actually, that sounds like a very GOOD IDEA! Since NCSoft apparently neither reads these boards nor listens to the representative who of ANet who does, perhaps the only way to get them to listen is to contact them directly.

I doubt I would be allowed to post their address here but they are in Brighton and a quick web search (since they don't post the address on their own site) can easily find their physical address.

lakatz · Jul 14, 2007, 06:29 PM // 18:29

CC...

I'm just checking in to see how you're doing with your efforts to get your currency changed in the in-game store, and I see a lot has happened over night. Wow!

I, too, feel very fortunate that ANet has a Community Relations Department and that their Community Relations personnel (at least Gaile in this case) have gone above and beyond to help with problems some of us are encountering with their distributor.

Kudos to Gaile and ANet for this extra effort on their part.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonesamurai

Gaile covered this... America is its own continecnt and NCSoft America covers America, Canada and that continent

NCSoft Europe (in Brighton, UK, may I add) deals with the ENTIRE European continant AND Australia and New Zealand... So this is why you get the elevated cost, because your continent has been lumped in with European and as such it doesn't directly deal with your currency

NCSoft Asia (as i recall has an office in Hong Kong) deals with the Asian market and so deals with the Asian currencies and even does GW as a P2P model...

People here also need to remember that ANet just make the game, thats all they do, NCSoft deal with the servers, marketting, packaging, sales, etc...

Excellent points. And I'm wondering how the cost of manufacturing and packaging might differ for NCSoft Europe from the cost in the US and if any taxes are tacked onto the process there, during either manufacturing and packaging or distribution... or (perish the thought) both. And since they have to ship overseas to Australia and New Zealand, I wonder if they factor those shipping costs into the MSRP as well?

Has anyone done a comparison of the in-game store prices for past games to see the difference between the territories? I can only tell you what the price is for the PVP Editions of Factions and NF in the US store - $39.99. Since I haven't bought them, I can see their prices, but I can't see the prices of anything I've already purchased. I'd love to know, and I think this kind of information might help in campaigning to have the Europe territory prices adjusted.

Meat Axe · Jul 15, 2007, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakatz

Has anyone done a comparison of the in-game store prices for past games to see the difference between the territories? I can only tell you what the price is for the PVP Editions of Factions and NF in the US store - $39.99. Since I haven't bought them, I can see their prices, but I can't see the prices of anything I've already purchased. I'd love to know, and I think this kind of information might help in campaigning to have the Europe territory prices adjusted.

I did actually do a comparison a few days ago for Nightfall. I went through the archives for press releases on the Europe and American GW sites, and managed to find the ones that said the RRP in each currency. And guess what. There was a difference in price very close to what we are seeing with GWEN.

In the press release, it said the RRP was being set at 29.99 GBP and 49.99 USD. 29.99 GBP (using the exchange rate currently. At the time I didn't think of checking what the exchange rate was back then, but it can't have been drastically different) is around 60.5494 USD. Alright, so we have a difference of 10.5594. The difference in the prices with GWEN is around 10.7835. Pretty damn close. I'll repeat that that is using the current exchange rates. Since I am too tired and slightly hung over to be bothered to check what they were back around the release of Nightfall, it would be good if someone could check. I don't think there should be any difference.

Now, for the PvP editions. The prices for these are set at 23.99 GBP. So this is equal to 48.8078 USD. So the difference between this and the US PvP editions is 8.8178. Not as close as the differences between GWEN prices and Nightfall prices, but I feel it's close enough to see an unsettling trend here. Maybe it's to do with taxes and whatnot. I don't know enough about taxes in different countries. But I wouldn't think that the difference would be more than a couple of dollars.

Anyway, I think I might bring this up with NCSoft Europe. I'll submit a support ticket in a couple of hours, but right now, I am starving.

Kashrlyyk · Jul 15, 2007, 05:52 AM // 05:52

Price changed from 19% tax to 7%: 26 Euro/1.19*1.07 = 23.38 Euro
Convert to USD: 23.38 *1.46 = 34.13 USD
So even with the same taxes Europeans would still pay 5 USD more.

pamelf · Jul 15, 2007, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

Because you are not in America

I'm sorry Gaile, but we're not in Britain either.

And I'm afraid that I am with Onarik Amrak in being completely unappreciative of being lumped in with Pakistan and Namibia in the currency department. It's not being anti-third world, but we DO have a strong currency of our own that is Internationally compatible, UNLIKE a place like Namibia. Our concerns are legitimate, and it would be nice to have our concerns taken seriously, rather than you making jokes that you think won't offend us because you "know Australians."

While you may not be the right person to talk to about this, you are the only person who posts here and helps us out. We apologise if you feel that you're being targeted as the scapegoat for things that you can not change, however I simply don't think that taking our situation lightheartedly helped our, or your, cause.

nossac · Jul 16, 2007, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Well I did giggle a bit over the The reference to other countries...Note not all the currencies refered to were 3rd world.

And even if they were it wasn't so many years ago that our politicians over here in Australia were refering to the countries economy as a Banana Republic.

So we've done a bit better in the last ten years but thats only based on the fact that other countries with developing economies have needed the minerals etc that we are lucky enough to have.

In the end all the carry on is seems to be about a maximium difference of Aus$8.50 between EB's price and the online game store price....For this extra $8.50 you get the bonus pack...

So I can't really see the difference between the extra I pay for the collectors edition and the extra I'll pay for this online.

All in all what can you really buy for $8.50 and is it worth so much bitching?

Onarik Amrak · Jul 16, 2007, 03:09 AM // 03:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by nossac

Well I did giggle a bit over the The reference to other countries...Note not all the currencies refered to were 3rd world.

And even if they were it wasn't so many years ago that our politicians over here in Australia were refering to the countries economy as a Banana Republic.

So we've done a bit better in the last ten years but thats only based on the fact that other countries with developing economies have needed the minerals etc that we are lucky enough to have.

In the end all the carry on is seems to be about a maximium difference of Aus$8.50 between EB's price and the online game store price....For this extra $8.50 you get the bonus pack...

So I can't really see the difference between the extra I pay for the collectors edition and the extra I'll pay for this online.

All in all what can you really buy for $8.50 and is it worth so much bitching?

But why should we have to pay more? And it's not just one person, or even a handful. It's everyone in Australia and New Zealand who want access to the, supposedly, free bonus pack.

Also, it's not just for the purchase of GW:EN, it's for all future purchases as well. Would you like to be paying a premium for every purchase from now up to and possibly including GW2? I wouldn't.

pamelf · Jul 16, 2007, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by nossac

All in all what can you really buy for $8.50 and is it worth so much bitching?

It's not the fact that it's a one of $8.50. If that were the case then I would have absolutely no issues with the annoyance of having to pay in pounds.

This is however a small amount added on to absolutely everything we purchase from the online store. There are going to be things that are added on to the site for purchase at a later date for which we will have no choice but to purchase from the OLS. If we are charged between $2-$10 extra EVERY time we are forced to purchase online, it will start to add up. It's not just about $8.50. The effects are far more far-reaching.

Firebaall · Jul 16, 2007, 03:31 AM // 03:31

I think a bigger issue is being side tracked here. It's not exchange rates that you folks should be worried about.

A post with "beware the in-game store" should be addressing the larger problem. What they don't tell you, is that if you go ahead with any purchase from their online store (which they have been pushing harder than Pepsi commercials in the 90s), your screwed.

How?

You will not be able to change the login user name ever again (the e-mail address). Sure, you can change the e-mail address associated with the PlayNC master account, but you're screwed for changing the actual guild wars login ID. Why is this a bad thing?

There is a major security flaw in how guild wars logs a player in. If an attacker doesn't get the user name right, it tells them there is no record of that account. If an attacker gets the user name right, but the password wrong....it tells them the user name is correct!

Once an account's user name is known, a 13 character password can be cracked in hours, using rainbow tables. HOURS!

That same account can be breached in minutes if it's a simple password.

Meat Axe · Jul 16, 2007, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by nossac

So I can't really see the difference between the extra I pay for the collectors edition and the extra I'll pay for this online.

All in all what can you really buy for $8.50 and is it worth so much bitching?

Alright, as others have said, it has nothing to do with how much extra money Australian, New Zealand and European customers have to pay. The fact of the matter is that for us, the bonus mission pack is not free. We're paying $8.50 extra. But for the US players (apart from those people that, for one reason or another, their account is set to pounds. But Gaile says that NCSoft can change this setting given a good reason, and is looking into that) they get this content free. Simply because, for some reason, GWEN is priced higher in Europe than it is in the US.

Quote:

Originally Posted by firebaall

You will not be able to change the login user name ever again (the e-mail address). Sure, you can change the e-mail address associated with the PlayNC master account, but you're screwed for changing the actual guild wars login ID. Why is this a bad thing?

There is a major security flaw in how guild wars logs a player in. If an attacker doesn't get the user name right, it tells them there is no record of that account. If an attacker gets the user name right, but the password wrong....it tells them the user name is correct!

Once an account's user name is known, a 13 character password can be cracked in hours, using rainbow tables. HOURS!

This is definitely an issue. There are a lot of things that could be tweaked to make security more tight, but to be honest, I am more concerned about the fact that I am definitely going to get charged more for GWEN if I want to get additional, supposedly free, content, than I am about the possibility of some nerd somewhere guessing my email, then spending hours trying to force his way into my account on a game.

Yes, there are issues with the online store and account security. But I think a more important issue is that thousands of players are going to get ripped off if they want to take advantage of a promotional offer. This isn't a direct problem with the online store. It is a problem with the prices set by NCSoft Europe. However, since this promotion is only offered through the online store, this is related to a problem with the online store.

countesscorpula · Jul 17, 2007, 01:11 AM // 01:11

First, Thanks again Gaile, for speaking on my behalf.

Update:

Five days had gone by sinc eI heard anything from support. When I checked on the ticket, I noticed it changed from "critical" to "in progress." With the change in status, but no note, I was inclined to ask for an update:

Quote:

Originally Posted by me talking to support

I see that the question status has changed from "critical" to "in progress." What exactly does "in progress" mean? Does it mean that the currency used when I log in to the In Game Store is being changed to US$? Does it mean that this issue is being escalated? I would appreciate an update on this issue as it has been 9 days since I initiated contact and 5 days since I last heard from anyone in support.

Here is what I've gathered so far:

From you:
-"Unfortunately, once set, an accounts currency cannot be changed by the customer nor are we able to do so"

From the CR lead at A-Net:
-"If you are being charged in the wrong currency -- if you're paying in Pounds but you live in Ohio or Dollars but you like in Tokyo -- please contact support. It's really that simple, and I confirmed that today. Support can reset your region. OP -- Have you asked?"
-"Mike told me they will reset one's region upon reasonable request"
-"Anyway, yes, they are supposed to reset it. They are telling us that it will be reset."

So far these two sources seem to be contradicting each other.

From my initial contact (this part was wholly ignored in the first reply):
-"I currently reside in Canada. If I attempt to make a purchase in the Guild Wars Online Store via the character selection screen, all prices are listed in Euros. I would much prefer to pay in US$ as that currency is much closer to my own."

So, The CR rep said that if I live in one place, and I'm being charged in the currency of another place, all I have to do is contact support and ask them to fix it. It would seem that I did exactly that 9 days ago. I really didn't expect that this would be such a difficutlt challange for the support personel. If someone could get back to me and let me know what exactly is going on, that would be nice.

That was responded to with:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Support Supervisor (Beth)

I apologize for the delay in our response. Your support ticket has been escalated to me as a supervisor for the PlayNC and Guild Wars Account Support Team. The status of "In Progress" means that we are currently discussing this issue to determine whether a resolution is possible. Once that determination has been made, I will certainly update you of such. I appreciate your continued patience and cooperation.

Kind Regards,
Beth - PlayNC & Guild Wars Account Support

And just before 5pm today:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Support Supervisor (Beth)

This e-mail is notification that the currency set for your Guild Wars game account has been changed to USD ($). Please let us know if you need any further assistance with this issue.

Regards,
Beth - Guild Wars Account Support

In the end they changed my currency to reflect my region. I'm not entirely sure what lesson to take from this experience. Is it...

1) Perseverance will bring rewards.

or

2) The squeeky wheel gets the grease.

I would still really like to know one thing. If changing a persons currency to match their region of residence is supposed to be a simple matter of contacting support, why was the request first ignored, and then denied? Why did it have to escalate to heated words, supervisors, and public debate?

Gaile gets an A+ for her efforts, but I can't see fit to giving support a passing grade. Over the course of this issue, I've seen many recount exchanges with support where initial responses have little or nothing to do with what the customer was asking about. If it is policy to reset a location on reasonable request (ex: I live in area A, you take money in currency A, can I please be charged in currency A), why are support agents saying this can't be done?

I understand that they wouldn't want a barrage of people asking for a currency switch everytime a new product is released, but that wasn't the case here. From what I've seen lately, it would appear that the knee jerk response of support is to turn people away, even if truning people away means making false statements. As Gaile pointed out in the PayPal survey thread, reporting false information can greatly damage one's credibility. And support system that lacks credibility is only going to result in clients constantly questioning every reply that comes out of support. That can't be good for anyone.

In short: I got the end result I hoped for, and I'm pleased with that. I am displeased that so much effort had to go into accomplishing something that was supposed to be "simple."

countesscorpula · Jul 17, 2007, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Though my personal issue has been dealt with, I am still concerned about those in Europe who are being charged 20-25% more for products than North American customers. By extension, I am also concerned about the folks of Oceania (I've come to identify with Aussies and Kiwis since my stay down there). Has anyone made any efforts in contacting Support in NCE? If so, how have they replied in regards to the 25% price hike for those in the European Market (whether located in Europe or not)?

Onarik Amrak · Jul 17, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Beyond the first token reply they gave me and the 2nd one. No.

I even sent another ticket on Friday, didn't get anything back that time.

I'm about to throw in the towel. But at least I nailed Gaile with that baker analogy.

countesscorpula · Jul 17, 2007, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by nossac

All in all what can you really buy for $8.50 and is it worth so much bitching?

Try and think of it like this...

Price for GW:EN in the US = $39.99
Price for GW:EN in the UK = $50.70

That's more than a 25% price hike. For the same product. The exact same product. With no packaging or shipping costs. Just an email with an alpha-numeric key.

So, if your parents didn't instil in you intelligent spending practices, than a 25% price hike should be of no concern. For the rest of us, being asked to pay 25% more for this purchase, and every purchase in the online store, seems a tad unreasonable.

What can you buy for $10.71 US? Well, whenever I'm asked to pay more for something, I tend to put it in terms of food, or rent (as these are basic essentials). For that amount, I'm pretty sure I can buy

one loaf of bread = 1.50
some cold cuts, (bologna or Ham) = 4.90
a head of lettuce, = .98
and probably two or three tomatoes = 2.20

That's sandwiches for a week (a 5 day work week). Maybe these things cost differently at your grocery store, but that's about what they cost here. And that's not even going to the "thrift" store to buy the cheap stuff.

So, people in Europe are being asked to pay the equivalent of 1 week's lunches over what people in America are paying. Not to mention the people who aren't in Europe and are being made to spend the European way. But I suppose that's all well and good. People in Europe are notoriously overweight anyways. After all, there are tonnes of documentaries popping up all the time about obesity in Europe, and how it's ruining their health and their health care system. Cutting back on a few meals is probably all for the best.

pamelf · Jul 17, 2007, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by countesscorpula

Though my personal issue has been dealt with, I am still concerned about those in Europe who are being charged 20-25% more for products than North American customers. By extension, I am also concerned about the folks of Oceania (I've come to identify with Aussies and Kiwis since my stay down there). Has anyone made any efforts in contacting Support in NCE? If so, how have they replied in regards to the 25% price hike for those in the European Market (whether located in Europe or not)?

I made a plea to NCSoft, but am still awaiting a reply...

Gaile Gray · Jul 17, 2007, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Pamelf -- Please keep me up to date. This isn't expressly "my turf," but then, I never let turf barrier stop me from advocating for you guys.

(Plus I really like the Support Team members, and we get on together great.) So just let me know what you learn.

CC -- good report. I'm forwarding to a co-founder tonight.

I want this process to be, truly, simple, if justified. We can't have everyone in a territory "price shopping" and jumping territories, but we do need to make it a prompt and painless switch for those who require it.

Thanks again.

psycore · Jul 17, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

I submitted a ticket explaining this problem to NC (Aussie, on Us server paying in pounds in the in game store) and then received a bunch of emails back.

They shuffled my email up one level.
Then they shuffled it to the supervisor.
Then they shuffled it to a different section.
They shuffled me up one level.
Then they shuffled me to NC Europe.
They shuffled my email up one level.

My email is trapped in some sort of bizarre bureaucratic time loop. What awesome support, I'm awaiting my call from Bangalore any moment now.

countesscorpula · Jul 17, 2007, 08:00 AM // 08:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

CC -- good report. I'm forwarding to a co-founder tonight.
.

I hope it is useful. This process was less than soothing for me, and if we can make it so others don't experience the same grief, it will be worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

We can't have everyone in a territory "price shopping" and jumping territories, but we do need to make it a prompt and painless switch for those who require it.

Thanks again.

Agreed. Having people hopping territories for improved pricing would create a mountain of administrative work that would dwarf Mt. Baker (we can see that sucker from Campbell River). Mind you, if the prices in the various territories were balanced, there would probably be a lot less to worry about.

Just food for thought.

Again, thanks for the extra effort you put in on my behalf.

Meat Axe · Jul 17, 2007, 11:36 AM // 11:36

Alright, well I sent in a ticket this afternoon (around 2 pm Brisbane time). This is the ticket:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Me

Hi. I have been looking into buying the Guild Wars expansion from the online store in the client to take advantage of the current Bonus Mission pack promotion. However, I have some concerns about the RRP of the game.

I live in Australia, which means I must make purchases from the online store in pounds. However, I looked into what the RRP of 24.99 pounds would convert to in Australian dollars and American dollars, and found that the European edition of the expansion costs significantly more than in the US. 24.99 GBP converts to around 50 USD, whereas the game only costs $39.99 to purchase in the US. This is a concern for not only myself, but many other Australian and New Zealand players looking to take advantage of the promotional offer through the online store, as well as many European customers.

And I got a reply surprisingly quickly, but nothing too promising yet. Here's the reply:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen from NCSoft Europe Support

Dear Mitchell,

Thank you for contacting us.

We are escalating your ticket to a Senior Account Support Representative to further assist you. Someone will contact you as quickly as possible.

Regards
GM Stephen
NCsoft Europe Customer Support Team
http://eu.plaync.com

So, nothing too exciting yet, but I'll keep you guys posted.

countesscorpula · Jul 17, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Very much on topic:

As you know, my in-game store was changed to US$ yesterday. Well, with today's update, I thought I'd give it a second look (actually hoping that the pre-release would be for sale). Imagine my surprise to see prices listed in all three currencies. So, folks in Aus and NZ, check on the prices in the in-game store. See what currencies are showing for you. It could just be me, but it would be worth while for folks to check.